Subversion on a massive level, audience response, cause and effect on the screen, feeling the atmosphere in the theater change; getting to where you are going, as far as a movie’s concerned. We’ve talked about all these things. [However], the talk show sequence in the Joker encompasses all of these things on a profound level, a level that I think is over most viewers’ heads, to tell you the truth… [When] you get to the talk show scene, the entire atmosphere in the theater changes. It’s not suspense, it’s beyond suspense. [Moviegoers] are riveted. Everybody is completely plugged in… The subversion on a massive level, the thing that’s profound is this. It’s not just suspenseful. It’s not just riveting and exciting.