It can be tricky to make a show about comedy funny — but it helps if even the folks behind the scenes are genuinely hilarious. Hacks is thus blessed by Lucia Aniello, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky, a triumvirate of creators who really understand their subject matter. The three of them helped spearhead the new HBO Max series about an iconic stand-up named Deborah Vance (Jean Smart), who finds an unlikely ally in Ava (Hannah Einbinder), a young writer who slowly but surely comes to understand what makes Deborah such a complicated but fiercely funny legend.
In a three-on-one interview with Collider, Aniello, Downs, and Statsky dig into the show’s origins, why Jean Smart was the perfect choice to star, bringing in The Bisexual creator Desiree Akhavan to direct episodes alongside Aniello and Downs for Season 1, and what the future might hold in store for the show.
No, of course. And I want to start off by asking about how the three of you came together to work on this.
PAUL DOWNS: We’ve worked together for a long time. Actually, you guys really started working together first. We met in New York doing comedy. Jen and Lucia were in a sketch group together.
LUCIA ANIELLO: We were the only two girls in a sketch group and then they kicked us out. Well, they just stopped sending us the email about where to meet or what the group was doing. So I don’t know.
It could’ve been a slip up.
JEN STATSKY: It was an admin error.
ANIELLO: I blame Hotmail.
DOWNS: Don’t take down Hotmail. But we worked together obviously on Broad City and we’ve been lucky enough to have Jen on set with us for our movie Rough Night. And also she came with us as we shot my Netflix special to Portland, Maine, where we were going to a Monster Jam monster truck show. And it was on that road trip, driving to Portland, Maine that we first talked about this idea five years ago. And we’ve really just kept thinking about it ever since. And we’ve been lucky enough to be working on a bunch of stuff that has kept us busy, but once we were all free and able to work on this, we just couldn’t wait because in those five years, so many ideas would percolate and we just kept returning to it. So that’s the long answer.
It’s a great answer. What was the initial germ of the idea?
ANIELLO: Just the idea that there are so many women in the entertainment industry, whether it’s standup or actors or producers or directors that really never got to have the same success as some of their male counterparts and how, especially for Jen and I, as women in this industry, we didn’t necessarily appreciate them for all that they’ve done to blaze a path ahead of us and we really stood on the shoulders of them and didn’t fully appreciate them. So for us, I think it was about being able to tell the story of a woman that had gone through it many, many times, and just keeps picking yourself up again and then telling the story through the point of view of a younger woman who maybe doesn’t appreciate her at first, but while working for her starts to gain context and appreciation for her and starts to appreciate her for all that she has done.
Ultimately for us, the show is, or will be, a redemption story for Deborah Vance. And for us, I think it’s just this moment in our culture where, where I think we’re starting to really reckon with the way that we’ve treated so many women for so long, and now we’re starting to kind of look back at those stories and say, here’s how, whether it’s the media or just society at large, did them dirty as it were. And so, I think that that’s something that they’re all, everyone’s always looking for an excuse to get rid of a woman, and they’re really looking for an excuse to keep a guy around, you know? And so for us, I think it’s about figuring out how can we tell that story in a way that is comedy first and it’s really just funny and then maybe those larger themes are there, but we didn’t want to hit anyone over the head with them. So that was kind of, is that the answer for what is the germ of the idea?
In those conversations, at what point was Jean Smart the person you were talking to you about this?
STATSKY: As we developed the idea and we developed the character of Deborah Vance, we just kept returning to the idea of we wanted someone who was so funny, so deeply comedic first, but also that could play the real dramatic side of it as well — a grounded portrayal of this person. And so when we just started talking about who could this be, Jean Smart was at the top of the list because in our minds, no one does both comedy and drama in equal parts better than she does. And so we sent her the script and she responded, thank God. We had a meeting and, and yeah, we were just so over the moon to have her join us and just elevate [the material]. The dream is that when you hand this part off to an actor, they elevate it. And she has just done that in spades, ha ha Vegas reference. Every day we were just so truly thankful for her because she has made this something beyond our wildest dreams and we just feel so lucky.
And we’re so excited for the world to see it because, I think Jean, especially in the past 10 years, has had such incredible roles, whether it’s Fargo or most recently doing Watchmen or Mare of Easttown and even in something like Designing Women or Frasier where she’s in part of an ensemble and has done such amazing work. But to really lead a show, we’re excited for the world to see Jean Smart at the top of her game, really commanding this part.
So much of her work up until now has been in a supporting role or a leading role in a limited series. Was it at all difficult to convince her to do something that could potentially run multiple seasons?
ANIELLO: No. I mean that actually hasn’t ever really been a part of the conversation. She was happy to be in LA working so she could be with her family. But no, I think, I don’t mean to speak for Jean, but I think the more that she’s lived as Deborah Vance, I think she’s always laughing on set and always just has just the best vibe and she’s legitimately a friend of ours and she became so close with the cast. I mean, I don’t mean to speak for her to say that she had a blast, but looked like she had a blast.
DOWNS: And she has pitched a couple of ideas.
That’s wonderful. In terms of finding Hannah, what were the qualities you were looking for in that character, and what made her stand out to you?
ANIELLO: Well, for one, it was important to us that they actually were in their mid-twenties, even though we did audition everybody who was between 20 and 40 — essentially every living actress. Somebody who was genuinely very, very funny, and if you are able to see Hannah’s Colbert standup special, you know she really is very funny. But also, somebody who can be both kind of like tough and entitled, but also is able to show vulnerability and sweetness and kindness and is able to kind of toggle back and forth in a way that felt really fresh and authentic. And for us she really came out of absolutely nowhere and really impressed us every time she came in to audition. And it was a grueling, it was an intense process because it was somebody who was the second on that call sheet and to go toe to toe every day with Jean Smart is not for, not everybody has that ability.
ANIELLO: So it was really important for us to just find somebody who also felt as authentic and real as Jean is. And we all have fallen in love with Hannah platonically.
So it sounds like most of the show was shot in LA. I’m guessing just like the occasional Vegas exterior was picked up there?
DOWNS: Probably 10 percent in Vegas.
That said, much of it is about Vegas culture. Coming out of it, do you like or dislike Vegas more?
DOWNS: Well, I should say that Jen loves Vegas. She went into it loving Vegas.
ANIELLO: She’s Vegas’s number one fan.
DOWNS: And Lucia and I did not, but having made the show, I have a real fondness for Las Vegas. I also was introduced to parts of Las Vegas that, when you go there for a weekend, you’re not necessarily seeing old Vegas or parts of Vegas that aren’t on the strip. And so I’ve really developed a fondness for the place.
ANIELLO: And also the crews there and everybody really welcomed us and was so kind and supportive and nice and just so friendly. So I, as like Paul said, we didn’t, we came in being a little hesitant, but I think they won us over. They’re good at hospitality.
STATSKY: Yeah. They know how to treat people. They know how to treat visitors.
I’m curious about the directing breakdown on this show. Was it mostly you, Lucia?
ANIELLO: Yeah, I directed six of them, Paul directed two, and then Desiree Akhavan directed two.
Oh wow. With a show like this, where you kind of get to have a bit of a blank slate, what excited you about getting to bring in new voices as a director and writers?
ANIELLO: Yeah. I think it was because the three of us had been working on it for so long, I think we’re also very “it’s our baby” so when we bring new people into the creative fold, it’s like having a babysitter and you’re like, don’t shake my baby. But we had an incredible writer’s room of really young, really diverse, really smart and funny, and just kind, cool people, which was a really great part because we’d been holding the show for a long time and we’d already broken a fair amount of the season. So to kind of have some fresh eyes and hearts and brains be brought onto it, it was a really nice kick in the butt for us, I think. And in terms of the directors, I’ve been lucky enough to have a couple shows where I’ve been allowed to kind of bring on other directors.
ANIELLO: And I found it to be like a really rewarding part of the process, just because you’re able to, in some, I mean, Desiree is not somebody who needs a break, but because she’s an incredibly talented director in her own right. I mean, far beyond before she came on with this and other projects. It’s great to give younger people an opportunity because in this industry, it’s really hard to break into something like episodic directing. And I think something like this show it doesn’t quite feel like it’s episodic directing because it really is like, kind of a little bit, I hope a little bit more of a, it almost feels like a five-hour movie. So to bring somebody else to kind of pitch in on that was cool. I mean, Paul is also a creator so it wasn’t quite the same. What was your experience? How’d you like it?
DOWNS: I loved it. You can quote me on that.
So this show was known as Untitled Jean Smart Project for a while, but according to Jean and Hannah, Hacks was the original working title.
DOWNS: Yes, yes. And it always, really was the title that we felt, I don’t know what it was. There’s just something evocative about it. It’s the kind of thing where it’s a little knowing, a little self-deprecating. And I think obviously speaks to the point of view that especially Ava has in the show, in the beginning of this series. It was just a clearance thing and luckily we cleared it up.
STATSKY: People in suits called other people in suits, or maybe they’re not in suits anymore cause of COVID. I don’t know.
ANIELLO: We were trying to think of alts in case it didn’t clear. We spent a lot of time doing that, but in the end we got it to be the title we wanted it to be.
I heard something about a list of 150 alts that were sent over at one point?
STATSKY: Because I thought we couldn’t call it Hacks because of this legal thing. We really went through a lot of titles, a lot of bad, bad titles, and some okay ones.
So, without knowing how Season 1 ends and not wanting you to spoil it for me either, what can you say about where you would want the show to go in future seasons?
STATSKY: I think we’ve sort of spoken to the fact that this is at its heart very much a redemption story for Deborah Vance. And so without spoiling anything, she is on the path to that with whatever that may mean, whether it is in the eyes of the media or society at large, like that is very much so a path she is on. And of course there will be many challenges and it won’t be easy to get there and things will start popping up from her past to make that perhaps more difficult, but that is very much where a part of at least where we see this journey continuing.
DOWNS: And you’ll get a clue when you see the latter half of the season. It does give you some idea of what’s to come.
STATSKY: I can’t wait for you to see the end of the season. Honestly, I think the end is even better than the beginning.
DOWNS: My favorite episodes are in the latter half.
Hacks is streaming now on HBO Max. New episodes premiere Thursdays.
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